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National Forum

How Do We Take Hurling On From Here

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Replying To Viking66:  "If Kerry get good enough to win the Joe Mac they will have reached the same standard as other Joe Mac winners, who have shown in Leinster when they target certain games they can get quite close to Liam McCarthy counties on occasion.
In 2022 Westmeath targeted us and got a draw. They werent any further behind us than Clare were in the AIQF that year at the hour mark, and the team we had on the pitch in Mullingar was stronger than the team we had on the pitch in Semple Stadium.
2 years ago in 2024 Carlow drew with Kilkenny.
Antrim beat us that year, and in 2024 we were in pretty good form, we beat Galway comfortably, and were robbed in Nowlan Park. Kilkenny ran Clare to 2 points in the AISF. Clare went on to win the AI.
Last year Dublin beat Offaly, who had just come up out of the Joe Mac, by only 1 point more than they beat Limerick by. You drew the Munster final in normal and extra time so were one of the strongest teams in Munster last year.

If Kerry do win the Joe Mac Id say they will target whoever is weakest of the Munster counties, maybe the weakest 2. They wont get hammered in every game. They will have to have a pretty decent team to win the Joe Mac in the 1st place. And a team might have an off day, or get complacent."
Teams cant afford an off day in Munster. You lose and you are under serious pressure immediately. The one fixture that everyone would target to ramp up the score difference is the Kerry game. If anyone ever dropped points to Kerry their season is over.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 761 - 26/03/2026 16:04:41    2663360

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "Teams cant afford an off day in Munster. You lose and you are under serious pressure immediately. The one fixture that everyone would target to ramp up the score difference is the Kerry game. If anyone ever dropped points to Kerry their season is over."
Score difference against Kerry would be irrelevant if mini Leagues were employed in the event of 3 plus way ties. Only the scoring difference in games between the tied counties. The extra game would put pressure on counties with smaller squads too. And older squads.
By your reckoning counties would be planning to put in peak performances 5 times instead of 4.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20659 - 26/03/2026 16:54:53    2663370

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Tadhg, Tadhg, Tadhg!! There's no way the Munster 5 will risk qualification based on scoring difference against the new lambs of spring fresh from a unique promotion.
Scoring difference would be voted through in the autumn following a heralded refreshing promotion. Many current day matters are not set in stone. Hence Joe Mac can increase to 8 etc.. Sin é.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10075 - 26/03/2026 17:33:00    2663376

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "Teams cant afford an off day in Munster. You lose and you are under serious pressure immediately. The one fixture that everyone would target to ramp up the score difference is the Kerry game. If anyone ever dropped points to Kerry their season is over."
Waterford didn't make it in 1A. There's hardly much hope for them in the great Munster championship.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4908 - 26/03/2026 18:51:08    2663385

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Replying To Viking66:  "Score difference against Kerry would be irrelevant if mini Leagues were employed in the event of 3 plus way ties. Only the scoring difference in games between the tied counties. The extra game would put pressure on counties with smaller squads too. And older squads.
By your reckoning counties would be planning to put in peak performances 5 times instead of 4."
As i have said already, score difference didnt matter in Cork v Offaly league game last week. They still put 6-36 on them. Every team are likely to do similar as players try to prove themselves. Im sure that you are going to say that Waterford wont but Waterford are a capable team who will put up a high score when given the chance.
Why would the other counties agree to a mini league? Its far more straight forward to use score difference and that is the current system.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 761 - 26/03/2026 20:37:13    2663388

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "As i have said already, score difference didnt matter in Cork v Offaly league game last week. They still put 6-36 on them. Every team are likely to do similar as players try to prove themselves. Im sure that you are going to say that Waterford wont but Waterford are a capable team who will put up a high score when given the chance.
Why would the other counties agree to a mini league? Its far more straight forward to use score difference and that is the current system."
We will just have to wait and see what happens if Kerry win the Joe Mac down the line.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20659 - 26/03/2026 22:41:25    2663394

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Tadhg, Tadhg, Tadhg!! There's no way the Munster 5 will risk qualification based on scoring difference against the new lambs of spring fresh from a unique promotion.
Scoring difference would be voted through in the autumn following a heralded refreshing promotion. Many current day matters are not set in stone. Hence Joe Mac can increase to 8 etc.. Sin é."
I just looked at the results the last time kerry played in Munster. It was pretty brutal tbh. 11 points waa the closest against Waterford in 99 I think. The next lowest was 16 also against Waterford. Roscommon ran Galway closer and they disbanded connacht a couple of years later. The standard has gone up a lot since then.
I dont know what Munster will do but no mercy or special favour was shown the previous time kerry played so dont expect home venue or any team letting up. History doesnt support that.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 761 - 26/03/2026 23:03:16    2663398

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As a bit of an aside -

With talk here about how many home games & away games in five- and six-team championships, maybe as good a time as any to post about an anomaly I spotted in the Rule Book last night while looking up that rule I posted earlier.

The rule about the provincial hurling championships says this:
Each team in the group of six will have three home games and two away games and each team in the group of five shall have two home games and two away games.

That bit I've put in bold is literally impossible to achieve. There's simply no way that every team could have three home and two away games.

For instance, Galway, Kilkenny and Offaly all have three homes games in Leinster this year.

But Wexford. Dublin and Kildare all only have two home games each. Strictly speaking, if any of those three end up unhappy with how the championship pans out, they'd have strong grounds to object on the grounds that the championship wasn't properly constituted in the first place.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4007 - 27/03/2026 00:52:15    2663405

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "I just looked at the results the last time kerry played in Munster. It was pretty brutal tbh. 11 points waa the closest against Waterford in 99 I think. The next lowest was 16 also against Waterford. Roscommon ran Galway closer and they disbanded connacht a couple of years later. The standard has gone up a lot since then.
I dont know what Munster will do but no mercy or special favour was shown the previous time kerry played so dont expect home venue or any team letting up. History doesnt support that."
They beat Waterford in the early 90s too. 93 wasnt it?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20659 - 27/03/2026 08:02:44    2663413

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "As a bit of an aside -

With talk here about how many home games & away games in five- and six-team championships, maybe as good a time as any to post about an anomaly I spotted in the Rule Book last night while looking up that rule I posted earlier.

The rule about the provincial hurling championships says this:
Each team in the group of six will have three home games and two away games and each team in the group of five shall have two home games and two away games.

That bit I've put in bold is literally impossible to achieve. There's simply no way that every team could have three home and two away games.

For instance, Galway, Kilkenny and Offaly all have three homes games in Leinster this year.

But Wexford. Dublin and Kildare all only have two home games each. Strictly speaking, if any of those three end up unhappy with how the championship pans out, they'd have strong grounds to object on the grounds that the championship wasn't properly constituted in the first place."
Hasn't it been like that since the 6th waa introduced?
The only other way is 2 home, 2 away, 1 neutral/CP. The neutral option will affect already low attendances and CP probably isnt viable.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 761 - 27/03/2026 08:29:27    2663418

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "
Replying To Pikeman96:  "As a bit of an aside -

With talk here about how many home games & away games in five- and six-team championships, maybe as good a time as any to post about an anomaly I spotted in the Rule Book last night while looking up that rule I posted earlier.

The rule about the provincial hurling championships says this:
Each team in the group of six will have three home games and two away games and each team in the group of five shall have two home games and two away games.

That bit I've put in bold is literally impossible to achieve. There's simply no way that every team could have three home and two away games.

For instance, Galway, Kilkenny and Offaly all have three homes games in Leinster this year.

But Wexford. Dublin and Kildare all only have two home games each. Strictly speaking, if any of those three end up unhappy with how the championship pans out, they'd have strong grounds to object on the grounds that the championship wasn't properly constituted in the first place."
Hasn't it been like that since the 6th waa introduced?
The only other way is 2 home, 2 away, 1 neutral/CP. The neutral option will affect already low attendances and CP probably isnt viable."
Low attendances are entirely due to lack of success here in Wexford. Dublins hurling support was never big, some very good hurling diehards there but big ball is the popular game of choice. Kilkenny never brought great crowds to games in general. Offaly have a tiny population compared even to Clare and Waterford, Kilkennys is a good bit less than these also.
If you look at the traditional hurling counties in Leinster, Kilkenny and Offalys population put together is only around the same as Tipp, and a good bit less than Limerick. And tiny compared to Cork. And while ours would be bigger than Clares or Waterfords, its still alot less than Limerick or Corks.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20659 - 27/03/2026 11:30:18    2663453

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@tadhg2020 - I no longer have the 2023 & 2024 Rule Books as I delete the files each year when the updated ones are issued, and the 2026 Book to reflect the changes at this year's Congress hasn't come out yet. But I'd say it's been written that way since the start all right.

So as I say, there's a Rule set down that's literally impossible to abide by.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4007 - 27/03/2026 11:44:51    2663456

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I doubt they would mind really. They will of course continue to block Kerry because it would lower the standard. Which applies equally now to Leinster although apart from Galway it is all Leinster counties which is a positive."
I think it's time we booted Galway out to be honest. Never liked it in the first place.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4664 - 27/03/2026 22:25:34    2663546

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "I think it's time we booted Galway out to be honest. Never liked it in the first place."
A route to make Leinster a Leinster championship again. MLLA = Make Leinster Leinster Again!

MUNSTER CHAMPIONSHIP (Tier 1)
5: Clare, Cork, Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford.
LEINSTER CHAMPIONSHIP (Tier 1)
5: Dublin, Kildare, Kilkenny, Offaly, Wexford.
NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP (Joe Mac - Tier 1ish!)
5: Galway, Antrim, Carlow, Laois, Westmeath.)
TIER 2 - Ring Cup
Increase from 6 to 8 teams.

CONUNDRUMS
• Agreeing All Ireland knockout format. Possibly Munster and Leinster winners direct to semi finals. National winner into quarter finals, guaranteed home advantage. 3rd placed Munster and Leinster in preliminary quarter final.
Quarter final line up consisting of 1 national winner, 2 provincial runners-up and 1 preliminary quarter final winner. If 2 Munster quarter finalists, draw them against the other 2. Similarly if 2 Leinster quarter finalists, draw them against the other 2. National winner should always have home advantage and preliminary quarter final winner should be away. Provincial runners up might gain home advantage by luck of the draw.
• Agreeing a mechanism for a Leinster county to transfer from National to Leinster. Could be finishing top 2 in national meaning automatic swap with 5th placed team from their province. Finishing 3rd meaning a playoff with the 5th placed team.
• Agreeing relegation to Tier 2. Would have to be from National Championship as that contains lower ranked counties from the Leinster.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10075 - 28/03/2026 08:22:08    2663558

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Replying To Viking66:  "They beat Waterford in the early 90s too. 93 wasnt it?"
I dont know. I dont remember it tbh.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 761 - 28/03/2026 09:16:56    2663564

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "I dont know. I dont remember it tbh."
Yes. In 1993, Kerry beat Waterford by 4-13 to 3-13 in Walsh Park in the first round of Munster.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4007 - 28/03/2026 13:19:46    2663588

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@legendzxix - to add to your conundrums -

That would basically be relegating Galway permanently to a Joe McDonagh Cup level. You have them in there at the start against this year's Joe McDonagh counties; they could never get out of that group to play in either Leinster or Munster instead; and the only change in teams in that group would be whoever goes up to Leinster and comes down from Leinster, same as Joe McDonagh Cup currently is.

I couldn't see that wash.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4007 - 28/03/2026 13:21:54    2663589

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@Pikeman96, yeah sure look it - I've no interest in getting involved in format discussions really. Just painting a picture of what it might entail when Doylerwex suggested kicking the Galway cuckoos out of the Leinster nest!
If a "National Championship" was the highest level for Connacht and Ulster counties - that would make it higher than tier 2, as does rewarding the winner with a home quarter final, something the provincial runners-up mightn't be guaranteed.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10075 - 28/03/2026 13:50:28    2663592

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Yes. In 1993, Kerry beat Waterford by 4-13 to 3-13 in Walsh Park in the first round of Munster."
Fair enough. Those men must be legends in Kerry hurling country.
If it happened now in the scenario we are discussing it would, almost certainly, relegate Waterford which is why I dont think anyone will let up or go in under cooked against them even if score difference isnt a deciding factor . As for home venue its another reason to vote against that too.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 761 - 28/03/2026 15:50:24    2663607

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"GAA's Central Council has recommended that the All-Ireland Hurling Quarter-Finals remain as neutral venues. Follows the Congress vote to remove the Preliminary Quarters."

Seems a negative step. Giving provincial runners-up home advantage rewards making the provincial finals over finishing 3rd.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10075 - 29/03/2026 08:10:20    2663675

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