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O Rourke lives around the Ballygawley area,he teaches there.
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2950 - 22/06/2022 16:23:27
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Replying To latouche25: "Sean Boylan had 10 or12 born leaders in the team, some very seasoned hard footballers. These men stood out for their clubs. Unfortunately now we only have 2 or 3 leaders at most, the rest are just above club standard and have very little leadership qualities if any." Sean boylan built a team when he started was lucky enuf to have great young lads later on.but he initially moulded a team he had picked from clubs all over meath.
Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 503 - 22/06/2022 16:46:43
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Andy has finally been able to speak openly about the county board last year and how they weren't honest in what they were doing. And tried to push Andy in October with no alternative and no thought for the benefit of Meath football. People on this forum last year were so desperate to see Andy gone that they overlooked the atrocious way it was done. I am happy that it's a 3 man committee to choose the next manager and not the executive. But whoever is chosen the county board must be united behind them. Regardless if f what they think of them personally, that's irrelevant. Judge them on results and the overall way they see the squad progressing. No vested interest. Run like any good operation, transparent, realistic expectations and open communication with management. There are good people in the county board but the vested interest need to be quashed. As important if not more than who is selected next manager
LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1584 - 22/06/2022 18:44:15
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Replying To sourmilk93: "What about Mick O'Dowd? Done a better job than most recent fella." Now there is a thought !
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1317 - 22/06/2022 18:52:06
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Replying To Thejoeshow: "No county publishes a job spec, not sure why you are so focused on job spec nobull, point has been made but publishing a job spec won't raise standards and could actually set us back.
There is a handful, a very small handful, of experienced managers available at the moment in the country who would have a CV to take a county like Meath and bring them forward and for Meath to get them it would require convincing as for most it requires extensive travel. Meath will be viewed as a big job given the history and size but we don't have any real in house options, Andy has been out most successful manager we have produced in some time with his success in ballyboden and minors/Ashbourne before it.
The real risk with taking your approach is we look for a very experienced manager and none apply as we don't have that experience in the county, this only serves to make Meath look a joke and unrealistic. As with any business the top manager will be approached and head hunted and convinced, this is how it works and this is what the county board are attempting to do in parallel with internal applicants." Totally agree
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 22/06/2022 20:57:20
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Replying To Jinxie: "He lives in Tyrone? Sure would he not be glad to get out of it a few nights a week so..... That could prove to be a positive, the further from that place the better... ;-)" Haha. You are right. Only worse place would be Roscommon:)
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 22/06/2022 20:59:48
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Replying To sourmilk93: "What about Mick O'Dowd? Done a better job than most recent fella." No wonder Roscommon like us were beat by Clare with nonsense like this.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 22/06/2022 21:01:11
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Replying To brian: "Unfortunately bdbuddah, that was 3 year ago, and everything after 2019 has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster, and lets not forget 2019 included an 19 point Leinster final defeat where we scored 0-4. As you say he did improve things up to 2019, but since then everything has gone backwards at such an alarming rate it's scary to thing when it might stop sliding.
Looked time might show us that was the best we could've achieved or hoped for and reflect well on Andy.
But we're here to talk about the new person coming in." The post I replied to said that Andy got the job based on an experienced CV but he turned out to be a bad choice, I was disagreeing, despite how it ended I still think he was the right choice at the time and his progress in first few years to me showed he was the right choice.
If there is an issue with how the county board handled Andy's management it was maybe how they carried out a review last year. The review should have happened in a timely manner. The botched way it was handled, by realistically leaving it too late for a new team to put preparations in place only served to badly undermine our preparations this year.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1416 - 23/06/2022 08:42:28
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Replying To Proudroyal: "Well Bdbuddah, I dont really want to go back over Andy's time as manager as most points have already been written but as you have brought it up ,If it came across as me having a go at Andy I assure you I'm not.Ive already said on here fair play to him and thanks for all he did.My point was Andy had a very good CV and it didnt work out in the end so is a good CV the be all and end all? I dont know.As you rightly say he did improve us in the first couple of years and got us to division 1 and super eights and with a bit of luck,better refs decision on occasions and better decisions by some players we could have beaten a couple of top teams.Our fitness improved no doubt in the first couple of years but the last couple of years we haven't looked as fit.Now whether that is us standing still or other teams ramping it up I'm not sure but we looked out on our feet alot this year.Although we lost all league games in division 1 bar the one draw we were competive in most games but fell away near the end of matches.Andy got us climbing the mountain but the last couple of years we have slid back down it.Judge Andy on the first couple of years yes he improve us,made us better but judge him on the last couple of years you would have to say we are at a standstill if not going back. You are judged on the here and now and unfortunately the last couple of years haven't been good enough.The next manager who comes in may do no better, maybe worse and then Andy might be judged a bit differently who knows but all we can do is judge on what we have seen.I think are next manager will have to be given time.My worry is say we go with someone who hasn't got alot of experience and thinks dont go great will the county board buckle under the pressure.If for arguments sake we got Jim Galvin,Malachy o Rourke or Jim McGuinness (just using as an example)proven winners they will have more in the bank and might be able to fight off us having a bad year where if say Bernard flynn gets it he wont have that proven winner thing to fight with, so for me whoever gets it must be given time but unfortunately it's a results business will he?" For me Andy's management went stale at the end. Fir me he was a good choice, the issue was how the county board botched the review last year. The way the review was handled only served to undermine the county team.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1416 - 23/06/2022 08:55:34
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Replying To bdbuddah: "For me Andy's management went stale at the end. Fir me he was a good choice, the issue was how the county board botched the review last year. The way the review was handled only served to undermine the county team." Yes Andy gave it his best shot He can hold his head up and be proud for that. Nobody can do more than their best. The way the review was dealt with was disgraceful ! Andy wasnt to blame for that!
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1317 - 23/06/2022 10:03:00
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Replying To nobull456: "I am at a loss to understand some of your reasoning A job description MUST be available to every applicant in this instance Why ? because the job description will be standards driven Why ? because its a standards and results driven job he is being asked to do. Objectives , reviews, and accountibility is the name of the game . I suggest the job description needs to also reflect that the opportunity is being taken to review our current standards and we want standards to be at the forefront of everything .Where maybe in the past we may not have focussed as much on standards ,its now moved to the top of the agenda. He needs to know that from the start. He needs to see we are trying to upgrade standards in everything. To do that he needs to know the starting point or where we are now. He needs to understand where we are starting from standards wise and where we are trying to get to. Nothing strange in that for any manager of any standing. If he doesnt agree ok next please. We want to raise the bar. WHATS WRONG WITH THAT.? I actually believe this approach is more honest and attractive to a GOOD manager who will take it as a plus that he knows exactly what he is being asked to do. In fact the potential manager who would want the handy vague desription of what he is asked to do i would avoid. Description availabe to the applicant will suffice, but i would like to see it on here as supporters are very much part of the scene even the critical ones like me. We are not in any hurry .I am fully prepared to give the CB as long as it takes to do this very important task. I genuinely wish them the best and i know it will not be easy." I understand where you are coming from and you like all Meath supporters want to see a major shake up in how we conduct our business. Reviews and accountability should be a minimum requirement, however, they were sadly lacking for last management and played a major role in where we now find ourselves. CB Chairman who is heading up team to find the right person sat back and oversaw the recent shambles, is he the right man to now demand the changes you rightly lay out? It is public knowledge how we conducted our business, so difficult for them to now demand the highest standards while their own house is not in order.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2257 - 23/06/2022 10:15:29
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Replying To Thejoeshow: "No county publishes a job spec, not sure why you are so focused on job spec nobull, point has been made but publishing a job spec won't raise standards and could actually set us back.
There is a handful, a very small handful, of experienced managers available at the moment in the country who would have a CV to take a county like Meath and bring them forward and for Meath to get them it would require convincing as for most it requires extensive travel. Meath will be viewed as a big job given the history and size but we don't have any real in house options, Andy has been out most successful manager we have produced in some time with his success in ballyboden and minors/Ashbourne before it.
The real risk with taking your approach is we look for a very experienced manager and none apply as we don't have that experience in the county, this only serves to make Meath look a joke and unrealistic. As with any business the top manager will be approached and head hunted and convinced, this is how it works and this is what the county board are attempting to do in parallel with internal applicants." That "very small handful of experienced managers available at present" i suggest might see the Meath job as a difficult gig. They may be in a position to choose their gig,and that handful .could become very small indeed. I am NOT saying experience doesnt matter... of course it does Its like horse racing the course and distance winners dont always win. Ideally experience with attitude is whats needed. Jim Gavin at the start had little experience but he certainly had attitude. Admittedly he was supported by a top class visionary county board. You may have misread me as i am totally in support of approaching the top guys to see if they will buy in to the plan to take us from here. Maybe im wrong but in fishing terms i dont expect much "bite" on that one .
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1317 - 23/06/2022 10:38:35
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Replying To seadog54: "I understand where you are coming from and you like all Meath supporters want to see a major shake up in how we conduct our business. Reviews and accountability should be a minimum requirement, however, they were sadly lacking for last management and played a major role in where we now find ourselves. CB Chairman who is heading up team to find the right person sat back and oversaw the recent shambles, is he the right man to now demand the changes you rightly lay out? It is public knowledge how we conducted our business, so difficult for them to now demand the highest standards while their own house is not in order." love it...100% ...nothing has changed in the Top personnel , attitude Or approach...so why would we expect a different result this time round?...Now...WE (and by default they) could get lucky...and by some miracle we could end up with the right man at the right time who does exactly what is needed to get us from somewhere around bottom of All Ireland participants...to a consistent Top 6 Team ...AND...i keep saying it.....This next Guy , will see little or no silverwear...its just not credible or realistic to think he will in the next 5 years...
I though Andys recent statement that the gaol every year was the same..to win leinster...if he needs to look at one reason for the failure..he just has to think about that statement
Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 403 - 23/06/2022 10:44:57
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Replying To seadog54: "I understand where you are coming from and you like all Meath supporters want to see a major shake up in how we conduct our business. Reviews and accountability should be a minimum requirement, however, they were sadly lacking for last management and played a major role in where we now find ourselves. CB Chairman who is heading up team to find the right person sat back and oversaw the recent shambles, is he the right man to now demand the changes you rightly lay out? It is public knowledge how we conducted our business, so difficult for them to now demand the highest standards while their own house is not in order." Fair point ......but we have to move forward from here against the odds as you say. I see myself as a supporter who believes the best way to support is to agitate for change in the long term at this time. I really dont care if some people on here think you are less of a supporter if you are trying to bring about change by challenging a status quo that will never work anyway. Onwards and upwards !
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1317 - 23/06/2022 10:52:35
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Replying To nobull456: "Yes Andy gave it his best shot He can hold his head up and be proud for that. Nobody can do more than their best. The way the review was dealt with was disgraceful ! Andy wasnt to blame for that!" What was his best.??
Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 503 - 23/06/2022 11:14:54
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Replying To Borderroyal: "What was his best.??" Usually offered as positive comment to acknowledge effort and commitment to a task.
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1317 - 23/06/2022 11:42:59
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Replying To nobull456: "That "very small handful of experienced managers available at present" i suggest might see the Meath job as a difficult gig. They may be in a position to choose their gig,and that handful .could become very small indeed. I am NOT saying experience doesnt matter... of course it does Its like horse racing the course and distance winners dont always win. Ideally experience with attitude is whats needed. Jim Gavin at the start had little experience but he certainly had attitude. Admittedly he was supported by a top class visionary county board. You may have misread me as i am totally in support of approaching the top guys to see if they will buy in to the plan to take us from here. Maybe im wrong but in fishing terms i dont expect much "bite" on that one ." Anyone who is willing to give up their time and energy for senior intercounty management will have the right attitude no one accepts that time commitment otherwise. My point was there is a small number with more experience than Andy who could lift Meath back to D1 not that we area bad job, the opposite.
Meath have underachieved and have winning underage sides coming thru, it's not unattractive
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 23/06/2022 11:47:32
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Replying To Borderroyal: "What was his best.??" Like it or not Meath we're never a D1 side at any stage in the last ten years before Andy. Meath were never nearly as fit in the last ten years and Andy was not blessed with the forwards or talent others had before him. While we won Vs lesser counties to get there other managers lost to those lesser teams. Go back and watch Meath under mod or Banty near the end and you'll see we came on, not enough and it regressed but any manager coming in will see staying in D2 the minimum and D1 a success and all Ireland series another success. Under previous managers we ended up in D3. Andy went stale and it went backwards but that was after it progressed initially. If we deem his entire reign a failure or he didn't give his best, who in their right mind would take it
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 23/06/2022 11:52:19
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Replying To Thejoeshow: "Anyone who is willing to give up their time and energy for senior intercounty management will have the right attitude no one accepts that time commitment otherwise. My point was there is a small number with more experience than Andy who could lift Meath back to D1 not that we area bad job, the opposite.
Meath have underachieved and have winning underage sides coming thru, it's not unattractive" Attitude extends well beyond just taking the job. I suggest taking the job means taking the challenge . not the same thing! Attitude will dictate behaviour in how you might do the job.!
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1317 - 23/06/2022 12:24:01
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Great posts this morning folks and great to see reasoned and well thought out posts and everyone being respectful of peoples thoughts and opinions. Think all of us here are pulling in the same direction and agree that Andy did what he could and through lack of support and backing this last 18 months or so that he was on a hiding to nothing. This reflected badly on the county board and was done on a public stage which might colour some leading candidates on going forward for the role. Think we're all agitating for better standards from the top level down and that should in turn hopefully drive improved standards with the senior team forward.
I think we need to be realistic in that the next person in might not be the saviour but if they could
1) steady the ship,
2) fix some of the blind spots that Andy had (fitness, S&C, kick outs, tactics, warm ups, free taking),
3) bring us back closer to the top 10 (IMHO we're currently below 16th if you were ranking teams, there's a lot of teams in the Tailteann Cup that would have their way with Meath right now including Cavan, Westmeath, Offaly, Tipp and possibly 1 or 2 more) and
4) have us at a consistent standard, whilst working with the U20 managers McCarthy and O'Bric, bringing through the 2020 and 2021 minors.
By the time those lads are peaking there might be a new manager or set up required to push them on to being a top 6 or so team. The aim needs to be to get back to being a consistent top 6 team when that minor team is coming to it's peak. There's no reason with population and resources available to Meath they can't be performing to a much higher standard and performing at a level at least equal to and possibly above Monaghan, Roscommon, Armagh and Donegal, all of whom would have much smaller populations than we have.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 2000 - 23/06/2022 12:31:51
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