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Meath Forum

New Meath Manager

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Replying To brian:  "Joe not attacking you with this but here's the championship records of our last 3 managers

Banty : Played 9 Won 5 Lost 4 56% Win Rate
MOD : Played 14 Won 6 Lost 8 43% Win Rate
Andy : Played 22 Won 10 Lost 12 45% Win Rate

Think you can compare MOD and Andy and MOD never had a qualifier game at home. Andy had 4 at home and only won one of them."
Brian you have a clear agenda regardless of how pleasant you phrase it so I am not going to engage in this with you anymore. You can point to COS as a negative but no mention of McGill, Keogan or menton who received all stars and improved onto the national stage in terms of their standing under Andy. In terms of COS he made his debut in MODs last year not a mainstay of that reign.

While you can defend MOD and put Andy down all you want, MOD inherited a better side and did not reach D1 indeed we had not been there since 2006, did not reach AI series and mangled the squad put cutting players loose, a fact well known.

There isn't a person outside the county who couldn't visibly see the progress under Andy, and while it tapered off last two years no one reached the highs he managed.

Just again to outline reality of both records

2013 - Tyrone D1
2014 - armagh who were just relagated to D3
2015 - Tyrone just relegated to D2
2016 - Derry who finished below us in D2

2017 - Donegal D1
2018 - Tyrone D1 AET
2019 - Super 8s
2020 - no back door
2021- no back door
2022 - Clare D2

Again Andy was ultimately not good enough and couldn't get us to next level and change was needed, but to revise history is just wrong and to frame it the way you are attempting to.

Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 28/06/2022 14:07:11    2428328

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A few external potential candidates i would like considered. Kevin Mcstay who did great things with roscommon, while he probably is a hot favourite for the Mayo job maybe he'd consider Meath if he didnt get Mayo. Also Oisin Mcconville interests me. While his CV might not be as strong he did manage senchelstown so would have some knowledge of Meath football and i just really like his views on the game any time hes on The sunday game, Podcasts etc

redser123 (Meath) - Posts: 431 - 28/06/2022 14:13:56    2428334

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Replying To brian:  "Joe not attacking you with this but here's the championship records of our last 3 managers

Banty : Played 9 Won 5 Lost 4 56% Win Rate
MOD : Played 14 Won 6 Lost 8 43% Win Rate
Andy : Played 22 Won 10 Lost 12 45% Win Rate

Think you can compare MOD and Andy and MOD never had a qualifier game at home. Andy had 4 at home and only won one of them."
And also you are not comparing like for like as 3 of Andy's championship losses were in super 8s round robin.

Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 28/06/2022 14:22:08    2428339

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Replying To redser123:  "A few external potential candidates i would like considered. Kevin Mcstay who did great things with roscommon, while he probably is a hot favourite for the Mayo job maybe he'd consider Meath if he didnt get Mayo. Also Oisin Mcconville interests me. While his CV might not be as strong he did manage senchelstown so would have some knowledge of Meath football and i just really like his views on the game any time hes on The sunday game, Podcasts etc"
I think Oisin might be on a ticket as part of staff redser

Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 28/06/2022 14:30:20    2428344

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Replying To redser123:  "A few external potential candidates i would like considered. Kevin Mcstay who did great things with roscommon, while he probably is a hot favourite for the Mayo job maybe he'd consider Meath if he didnt get Mayo. Also Oisin Mcconville interests me. While his CV might not be as strong he did manage senchelstown so would have some knowledge of Meath football and i just really like his views on the game any time hes on The sunday game, Podcasts etc"
Joe Rogan does a good podcast too, Perhaps we should look into him!

Jimmycricket (Meath) - Posts: 116 - 28/06/2022 14:40:44    2428351

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Replying To Thejoeshow:  "Brian you have a clear agenda regardless of how pleasant you phrase it so I am not going to engage in this with you anymore. You can point to COS as a negative but no mention of McGill, Keogan or menton who received all stars and improved onto the national stage in terms of their standing under Andy. In terms of COS he made his debut in MODs last year not a mainstay of that reign.

While you can defend MOD and put Andy down all you want, MOD inherited a better side and did not reach D1 indeed we had not been there since 2006, did not reach AI series and mangled the squad put cutting players loose, a fact well known.

There isn't a person outside the county who couldn't visibly see the progress under Andy, and while it tapered off last two years no one reached the highs he managed.

Just again to outline reality of both records

2013 - Tyrone D1
2014 - armagh who were just relagated to D3
2015 - Tyrone just relegated to D2
2016 - Derry who finished below us in D2

2017 - Donegal D1
2018 - Tyrone D1 AET
2019 - Super 8s
2020 - no back door
2021- no back door
2022 - Clare D2

Again Andy was ultimately not good enough and couldn't get us to next level and change was needed, but to revise history is just wrong and to frame it the way you are attempting to."
Joe, I'm not trying to defend MOD or downplay Andy, i was in agreement with you and have never claimed that MOD was a better manager. He's very clearly wasn't and I'm pretty sure i have always said that. I don't have any agenda against anyone, I'm trying to be balanced in what i'm saying is all. Cillian played in 2103 for MOD was injured for 2014 and 2015 and then came back in 2016. MOD got us out of division 3 in his first year and had Michael Newman had an all star nominations during his time, and i think Donal Keoghan might've had one too during his time. Both managers started well in their early years and both fell off dramatically.

You said the following "It's wins and losses. Mick has the worst record of championship wins since the 70s only winning 40% of his games, Andy won 50%. Can't compare them." They had similar records in the championship and yes Andy's was better but marginally so, so yes you can very much compare them.

2013 - Croke Park - Tyrone D1
2014 - Croke Park - armagh who were just relagated to D3
2015 - Omagh - Tyrone just relegated to D2 so played in division 1 in 2015
2016 - Owenbeg - Derry who finished below us in D2
2017 - Navan - Donegal D1
2018 - Navan - Tyrone D1 AET
2019 - Multiple venues - Super 8s
2020 - no back door
2021- no back door
2022 - Ennis - Clare D2 who finished below us in D2 in 2022 and who we beat in the league

Those results are pretty similar when we compare them. You can't say Derry finished below us in Division 2 when Clare did as well this year, you have to balance it out.

If you don't want to accept that here's another way of looking at things. Their records v Dublin

2012 : Dublin 2-13 Meath 1-13 - 3 point loss
2013 : Dublin 2-15 Meath 0-14 - 7 point loss
2014 : Dublin 3-20 Meath 1-10 - 16 point loss
2015 : didn't play
2016 : Dublin 0-21 Meath 0-11 - 10 point loss
2017 : didn't play
2018 : didn't play
2019 : Dublin 1-17 Meath 0-04 - 16 point loss
2020 : Dublin 3-21 Meath 0-09 - 21 point loss
2021 : Dublin 2-16 Meath 1-13 - 6 point loss
2022 : Dublin 1-27 Meath 1-14 - 13 point loss


Banty played Dublin 1 times lost by an average of 3 points
MOD played Dublin 3 times lost by an average of 11 points
Andy played Dublin 4 times lost by an average of 14 points

brian (Meath) - Posts: 2000 - 28/06/2022 14:49:48    2428359

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Replying To Thejoeshow:  "And also you are not comparing like for like as 3 of Andy's championship losses were in super 8s round robin."
Joe, I simply said games played, wins and losses. That's the most simplistic measure of things.

A win or loss and when things happened doesn't factor into that.

Quality of opposition is subjective, as is where games were played and whether they're in super 8's or not.

As you said "It's wins and losses. Mick has the worst record of championship wins since the 70s only winning 40% of his games, Andy won 50%. Can't compare them." Their records of wins and losses we 43% and 45% that's it.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 2000 - 28/06/2022 15:24:45    2428382

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Replying To brian:  "Joe, I'm not trying to defend MOD or downplay Andy, i was in agreement with you and have never claimed that MOD was a better manager. He's very clearly wasn't and I'm pretty sure i have always said that. I don't have any agenda against anyone, I'm trying to be balanced in what i'm saying is all. Cillian played in 2103 for MOD was injured for 2014 and 2015 and then came back in 2016. MOD got us out of division 3 in his first year and had Michael Newman had an all star nominations during his time, and i think Donal Keoghan might've had one too during his time. Both managers started well in their early years and both fell off dramatically.

You said the following "It's wins and losses. Mick has the worst record of championship wins since the 70s only winning 40% of his games, Andy won 50%. Can't compare them." They had similar records in the championship and yes Andy's was better but marginally so, so yes you can very much compare them.

2013 - Croke Park - Tyrone D1
2014 - Croke Park - armagh who were just relagated to D3
2015 - Omagh - Tyrone just relegated to D2 so played in division 1 in 2015
2016 - Owenbeg - Derry who finished below us in D2
2017 - Navan - Donegal D1
2018 - Navan - Tyrone D1 AET
2019 - Multiple venues - Super 8s
2020 - no back door
2021- no back door
2022 - Ennis - Clare D2 who finished below us in D2 in 2022 and who we beat in the league

Those results are pretty similar when we compare them. You can't say Derry finished below us in Division 2 when Clare did as well this year, you have to balance it out.

If you don't want to accept that here's another way of looking at things. Their records v Dublin

2012 : Dublin 2-13 Meath 1-13 - 3 point loss
2013 : Dublin 2-15 Meath 0-14 - 7 point loss
2014 : Dublin 3-20 Meath 1-10 - 16 point loss
2015 : didn't play
2016 : Dublin 0-21 Meath 0-11 - 10 point loss
2017 : didn't play
2018 : didn't play
2019 : Dublin 1-17 Meath 0-04 - 16 point loss
2020 : Dublin 3-21 Meath 0-09 - 21 point loss
2021 : Dublin 2-16 Meath 1-13 - 6 point loss
2022 : Dublin 1-27 Meath 1-14 - 13 point loss


Banty played Dublin 1 times lost by an average of 3 points
MOD played Dublin 3 times lost by an average of 11 points
Andy played Dublin 4 times lost by an average of 14 points"
Andy lost two two D1 sides who finished 3rd that year in D1 and clare this year which was a bad loss similar to
Derry. Mick lost to sides relegated from D1 or D2 which is not similar.

MOD rightly got us out of D3 but Andy got out of D2.

Comparing Dublin in 2012 before their dominance vs Dublin from mid 2010s on is not the same. Look at dublins results generally from those periods and the margins of their wins.

Andy played super 8s which added 3 losses as he played 3 top sides in championship football not at all like for like with mick who never reached that phase.

Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 28/06/2022 15:29:37    2428391

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Replying To Thejoeshow:  "And also you are not comparing like for like as 3 of Andy's championship losses were in super 8s round robin."
Joe, I simply said games played, wins and losses. That's the most simplistic measure of things.

A win or loss and when things happened doesn't factor into that. These are all championship matches and who you're drawn against is the luck of the draw. Quality of opposition is subjective, as is where games were played and whether they're in super 8's or not.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 2000 - 28/06/2022 17:19:16    2428431

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@Thejoeshow

You've mentioned Michael McDermott's name and Oisin McConville's name (on another person's ticket)

Are these widely known things or are they just some of what's in the running? Haven't heard anything at all so just asking if the news you're getting is common knowledge. Not calling into question the validity of anything you're saying about them, I know you're not a BS artist or trying to claim to be in the know, I just haven't heard anything in terms of names (not that i'd hear anything or have access to anyone who'd have that information)

brian (Meath) - Posts: 2000 - 28/06/2022 17:27:17    2428435

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Replying To brian:  "@Thejoeshow

You've mentioned Michael McDermott's name and Oisin McConville's name (on another person's ticket)

Are these widely known things or are they just some of what's in the running? Haven't heard anything at all so just asking if the news you're getting is common knowledge. Not calling into question the validity of anything you're saying about them, I know you're not a BS artist or trying to claim to be in the know, I just haven't heard anything in terms of names (not that i'd hear anything or have access to anyone who'd have that information)"
These are just some names in the running I think McDermott being in and being backed is fairly widely whispered alright, I'd be friends with a few people who would be in or around it at times hence I know Eamonn fitz is the dream target and McDermott is supported (I must admit I was unaware of the extent of his experience)

Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 28/06/2022 19:21:44    2428460

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Looked up Mcdermotts CV there, won 4 different county championships and also brought Kilmurry of Clare to the AI club final in 2010. He has also managed Clare for 3 seasons bringing them to a Munster final.

Has intercounty experience and knows the meath club scene. He was also in the running for the Cavan job along with Mickey Graham

UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 475 - 29/06/2022 10:41:23    2428544

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No offence to Michael McDermott, but I see this as an underwhelming appointment. Yes, he has an excellent record at club level, and he managed Clare and Cavan with nothing of note happening, but correct me if I am wrong, do his teams not play very defensive football with everyone sitting behind the ball?

The Meath County board are going to do well to find a better management team than the one they turfed out on their ear.

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 1021 - 29/06/2022 10:48:31    2428552

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Replying To BigJoe14:  "No offence to Michael McDermott, but I see this as an underwhelming appointment. Yes, he has an excellent record at club level, and he managed Clare and Cavan with nothing of note happening, but correct me if I am wrong, do his teams not play very defensive football with everyone sitting behind the ball?

The Meath County board are going to do well to find a better management team than the one they turfed out on their ear."
I would agree and I don't think he is appointed just has a few backers and name gone in, that's the extent I am aware of

Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 29/06/2022 12:05:00    2428577

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Replying To Thejoeshow:  "I would agree and I don't think he is appointed just has a few backers and name gone in, that's the extent I am aware of"
He may end up getting the job due to lack of available better alternatives but it would be a very underwhelming appointment and wouldn't exactly get the Meath supporters or indeed players to excited.

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 1021 - 29/06/2022 12:39:21    2428592

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Replying To BigJoe14:  "He may end up getting the job due to lack of available better alternatives but it would be a very underwhelming appointment and wouldn't exactly get the Meath supporters or indeed players to excited."
Sean boylan was a hurling herbalist and a hurling man. Need to get behind whoever is appointed. Michael McDermott CV speaks for itself and would be a fine choice.

redser123 (Meath) - Posts: 431 - 29/06/2022 13:57:34    2428625

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Now that Banty has stood down as Monaghan manager, whoever is in the running for the Meath job, should try and move heaven and earth to get Donie Buckley as part of their coaching team. The man clearly has no problem travelling given he has gone to Monaghan and Mayo in the past.

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 1021 - 29/06/2022 14:33:07    2428645

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Replying To BigJoe14:  "Now that Banty has stood down as Monaghan manager, whoever is in the running for the Meath job, should try and move heaven and earth to get Donie Buckley as part of their coaching team. The man clearly has no problem travelling given he has gone to Monaghan and Mayo in the past."
That's a decent shout alright Joe, he's never had teams who've lacked for anything in fitness, S&C, turning the ball over etc. Donie Buckley knows how to do it right for Gaelic Games. If he's interested or could be added to someone's ticket, why not at least have a conversation.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 2000 - 29/06/2022 15:51:56    2428679

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Replying To BigJoe14:  "No offence to Michael McDermott, but I see this as an underwhelming appointment. Yes, he has an excellent record at club level, and he managed Clare and Cavan with nothing of note happening, but correct me if I am wrong, do his teams not play very defensive football with everyone sitting behind the ball?

The Meath County board are going to do well to find a better management team than the one they turfed out on their ear."
Mcdermott didn't manage Cavan. He was in the frame for it when Mickey Graham got it.
He done a decent job with Clare. Probably his best achievement was getting Kilmurray to the All Ireland club final. Plenty of club titles, managed in Limerick also.

Would Bernard Flynn not be the favourite with Robbie Brennan in the package?

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2950 - 29/06/2022 17:48:29    2428700

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Replying To Thejoeshow:  "Brian you have a clear agenda regardless of how pleasant you phrase it so I am not going to engage in this with you anymore. You can point to COS as a negative but no mention of McGill, Keogan or menton who received all stars and improved onto the national stage in terms of their standing under Andy. In terms of COS he made his debut in MODs last year not a mainstay of that reign.

While you can defend MOD and put Andy down all you want, MOD inherited a better side and did not reach D1 indeed we had not been there since 2006, did not reach AI series and mangled the squad put cutting players loose, a fact well known.

There isn't a person outside the county who couldn't visibly see the progress under Andy, and while it tapered off last two years no one reached the highs he managed.

Just again to outline reality of both records

2013 - Tyrone D1
2014 - armagh who were just relagated to D3
2015 - Tyrone just relegated to D2
2016 - Derry who finished below us in D2

2017 - Donegal D1
2018 - Tyrone D1 AET
2019 - Super 8s
2020 - no back door
2021- no back door
2022 - Clare D2

Again Andy was ultimately not good enough and couldn't get us to next level and change was needed, but to revise history is just wrong and to frame it the way you are attempting to."
Well
Said.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 29/06/2022 19:47:23    2428729

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